Takahiro Yasuno x Ken Suzuki x Hiroki Azuma What is Plurality?
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o3.icon
Hiroki Azuma and Ken Suzuki were speakers at the 1st Web Society Symposium held at the University of Tokyo's Yasuda Auditorium on December 7, 2009, and the moderator was Suzuki.
The point of contact between the two was a study group ised (Information Society Ethics & Design) held at GLOCOM, an international university, in 2004-06. Session 1: "The Web and Politics - Reinventing Democracy"
Speakers Kenzo Fujisue / Hiroki Azuma / Daisuke Tsuda / Tetsuya Sato / Satoshi Hamano
Moderator: Ken Suzuki
Mr. Yasuno, who was a first-year undergraduate student at the time, went to listen and became interested in politics.
0xtkgshn The French Revolution didn't leave a concrete example of action, but the US was able to create a constitution, so ok. Hannah Arendt thinks the American Revolution was better than the French Revolution.
The French Revolution only destroyed the ancien régime.
The U.S. created the Constitution.
o3.icon Hannah Arendt., in "On Revolution (On Revolution, 1963)," speaks more highly of the American Revolution than of the French Revolution. Arendt defined the essence of revolution as "the creation of freedom," and argued that in the United States it was partially realized, while in France social problems came to the fore, resulting in tyranny and violence rather than the creation of freedom. She also noted the "practice of town meetings and councils" in the United States and praised grassroots political participation. Action-only revolution and sustainable revolution
The U.S. Constitution was designed from the beginning to allow for division.
The U.S. has a thriving grassroots study group interpreting the Constitution.
Republicans are more aggressive in discussing the Constitution.
If we're being true to the spirit of the Constitution, then the federal government is overstepping its bounds right now.
Education is not written into the Constitution.
So it is the state's right to decide what kind of education to provide.
The Federation is doing too many things, so let's dismantle it.
→Ministry of Government Efficiency](DOGE) Plurality story
Ken's commentary and other stuff is linked from here.
The idea that the other two are currently too strong and dangerous.
The scope of "The Smooth Society and Its Enemies" is a little different because it's a book looking 300 years into the future.
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https://gyazo.com/2023cb08538c06434d3ac53d4991d24d
Technology advances → communication becomes deeper and wider
https://gyazo.com/a1bb9b2b2a62c86f69840bf328a4a191
Taiwan has been using Pol.is for almost 10 years.
X's Community Notes inspired by Pol.is
hazuma: I'm surprised Audrey appreciates Community Notes, isn't it working?
kensuzuki: maybe I'm biased because there are still very few people contributing to CN in Japan
0xtkgshn The community notes data is open so we can verify that too, CfJ does that. hal_sk Community Notes did not work very well, at least not during the Hyogo gubernatorial election. o3.iconThe joint research on the Hyogo Prefecture gubernatorial election drew a great response by quantitatively demonstrating the "dysfunction" of the 165 election-related notes, only 5 of which were made available to the public.
I think Audrey's appreciation of Community Notes is that "what could only be done with a mere 1000 people at the time of Pol.is, can now be done with a large number of people with the addition of Community Notes to X."nishio.icon
I think Ken understands the formulas, but he had difficulty using them verbally without a whiteboard diagram, and someone with zero knowledge might not have understood them due to lack of context.
The mechanism of appreciating what is commonly valued by people with different opinion tendencies is common
genroncafe Yasuno: "In the past, the government used to be able to read all pubic comments properly, but now we have the problem of receiving a lot of pubic comments written by AI ......" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuXWR_kbEAAZAc6?format=jpg&name=small#.png
Author.
hal_sk (in response to the comment "at least read the pubic comments") For one pubic comment, they sent thousands of them using AI, and it has become a social problem. Mr. Yasuno said.
In fact, I think it would be better to use AI, because if so many come, young staff will just classify them, and then they will be used as the basis for policy discussions.
0xtkgshn Supplement to Harbager tax "Self-assessment of the value of the goods -> n% of that tax is collected -> if the bid is higher than the self-assessed value, you have to give it away." https://gyazo.com/a1bb9b2b2a62c86f69840bf328a4a191
[Can Plurality be "PMF"-An Analysis of the Plurality Mechanism Reveals the Potential for Governance to Create a Pluralistic Society｜Digital Democracy Research Unit (no longer active) https://note.com/digitaldemocracy/n/nb 228136123f4] Author.
Concerns about loss of cultural values
There will be no more buckwheat noodle shops on the side streets.
Soba Restaurant Crafan on Yokocho
If you can't pay your taxes, we'll go under!"
0xtkgshn There's been some exploration of using it for ad space and such... I wonder if this is another Harberger Tax thing.
Because Audrey and Glen wrote
Harberger Tax, QV/QF are Glen-like
Community Notes, Pol.is, Talk to the City are Audrey-like
hazuma: words and money.
Nice summary.nishio.icon
o3.iconEmergent Democracy" is an essay that Joi Ito published on his blog Joi Ito's Weblog in 2003. Ito's Weblog in 2003, which presented a vision of how the Internet's rapidly spreading interactive media such as Blog and RSS would promote "self-organization from below" and create a new form of democracy. At the time of publication, version 1.3 was posted on the blog, and a revised version was subsequently circulated up to 3.2. What happened next.
Weblogs became blogs, and Twitter emerged as a microblog, which at one time led to the Arab Spring and other emergencies, but then capitalist forces changed the algorithm and turned it into a platform that fueled division.nishio.icon
hal_sk "You know how many times we've seen these things." Yes. Exactly.
But don't you think that society will change through the repetition of tackling the same problem in a slightly > different way, using the technology of the time?
I'm a civic tech myself, and I've had a lot of things said to me by my elders.
realNuun Azuma's foresighted conversation in 2004 about the future of the Internet and democracy >realNuun In a conversation between Director Kamiyama and Hiroki Azuma of Eureka, which featured Ghost in the Shell SAC, Hiroki Azuma said, "I think there will be famous bloggers entering politics in the future. He foresaw something like the N-Kokoku Party in 2004, and it was too much of a stone. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFdYyprb0AAExHO?format=jpg&name=small#.png https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GFdYypvacAA51gd?format=jpg&name=small#.png
Ken said he played 1 and 2, but I have played since 4.nishio.icon
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Is digital democracy a strategy for small countries?
Geopolitical Conditions in Taiwan
Is that why they spread?
That's likely.
Is that a condition for widespread use?
it does not seem possible to say so
It starts in small countries and spreads to large countries.
It used to be that the U.S. controlled industry and the military, created the Internet, and net democracy was coming! It was all about "Net Democracy is coming!
Now the major powers are moving toward techno-feudalism, and we can't let Taiwan's lights go out to protect democracy! I feel like hazuma: I feel a sense of sadness.
genroncafe East "It's standard for books like this to talk about how there will be no more borders, but "PLURALITY" is about the importance of Taiwan for digital democracy and that's what we're talking about. ......" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuXexcYa4AARAQe?format=jpg&name=small#.png
hal_sk You can do it because Taiwan is a small country. There are certainly some aspects of this, but it is not really true that it is done in Taiwan.
Many aspects are overrated.
On the other hand, it is interesting that Japanese parties are now doing broad listening and other things that are getting attention.
2003 Tim O’Reilly「Government 2.0」
Obama Administrationo3.icon
2009/1/21
Shortly after his inauguration, he released the Transparency & Open Gov Memorandum.
Three principles (transparency, participation, and collaboration) are mandated for federal agencies.
Adopted almost the same vocabulary as the three pillars set forth by O'Reilly
2009/5 Data.gov opened (47 initial datasets → 250,000 datasets released in 1 year)
Flagship project to "API-ize the government
2009/5
Appoints Aneesh Chopra as first U.S. CTO and Vivek Kundra as CIO
Both have spoken at the Gov 2.0 Summit and worked with O'Reilly. Injecting private-sector knowledge of technology into government
→ Blown away by the Trump administration in 2016.
Audrey becomes a reverse mentor.
Digital Democracy Develops in Taiwan
Glen was introduced to Audrey by Vitalik of Ethereum.
The Ethereum community originally thought that the "automatic enforcement" of contracts through smart contracts would allow private contracts to be secured without the power of the state, and that this change in constraints would lead to radical changes in various social institutions. Glen, an up-and-coming economist, published Radical Market, which became very popular.
The three of them and others later founded the NPO "RadicalxChange" (2018). Glen was in Audrey, became a fan of Audrey's, and approached Audrey's side of the viewpoint.
RxC rebranded because of Ethereum's influence and too much Web3 color
Plurality(2022)のAt the same time, as pluralists, we don’t want to reach only “web3 natives”, and as such we hope to make it a beautiful physical object, widely accessible, distributed and reviewed in standard publishing and media channels.の話だねnishio.icon Then Plurality was created.
Comparison and combination of singularity and plurality
nishio This is a diagram I have not seen before! https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuXnBrwbEAMBIM2?format=jpg&name=small#.png
Marx: dramatic development of capitalist productive forces → explosion of internal contradictions → transformation to communism
Acceleration of productive forces → reaching the next stage of production overlaps with modern accelerationism.
The "x" in RxC is derived from Yukito Emaya
Emotani Theory by Hiroki Azuma and Ken Suzuki.
o3.iconnishio.iconDiscussion of "Per Gyojin Karatani" - a brief summary
"X" is a tribute to Emiya's "Exchange Style X.
The "X" in RadicalxChange is taken from "Mode of Exchange X" proposed by Yukito Karaya in "Structure of World History".
Mode of Exchange X" refers to a "gift-redistribution" type of exchange that is different from the market and the state, and is associated with the keywords "plurality" and "digital democracy" as suggesting "a system in which diverse others can coexist. It is associated with the keywords "plurality" and "digital democracy.
Emaya's early reading = salvaging "plurality".
In "Marx at the Center of Possibility" and "Inquiry I," he criticized the popular image of Marx as a single historian of progress, and by focusing on exchange, he reinterpreted the idea that the "failure of exchange" opens up a pluralistic world.
It is also related to Hiroki Azuma's concept of "misdelivery. The quote here is from Marx's thesis (?). Master's thesis? The quote here is from Lucretius ("The atom deviates subtly in falling vertically"), which was treated in Marx's thesis (?). ("The atom subtly deviates in its vertical fall"), a motif treated in Marx's thesis (? master's thesis? doctoral dissertation?). The turn to the "big story" since the 2000s and its pros and cons
In the 2000s, Emory scaled up to a world-historical and religious systems theory.
Azuma and Suzuki are
I like the "initial small deviations = plurality" line.
The grandiose "philosophy of world history" of the latter period became more monolithic/theological and less interesting.
He shared his assessment of the company's performance.
He also blurted out that "recent Emaya fans only read and get excited about his later works, but they don't know about his early edges."
Correspondence with Hiroki Azuma, Philosophy of Correctability
He pointed out that this is a parallel to "Emiya's reading of Marx, who rescued 'plurality' through the mode of exchange.
assimilation policy
multiculturalism
The Third Way: bridging
KEN: "Doesn't it also have something to do with the philosophy of tourism?"
Audrey Tan
execution (e.g. program)
What exactly was done?
JOIN
An electronic bulletin board operated by the government, where anyone can write and support the proposal, and where the ministry in charge will consider the proposal when 5,000 supportive comments are collected.
Politicians created a new circuit of legislation that went beyond just submitting bills.
200 laws have been created in operation since 2015.
Yasuno: "You don't have to be a politician to propose a good law, and it will be implemented. I want to create such a circuit. In Taiwan, there is a platform called 'Join' ......"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuXgceRagAAtenH?format=jpg&name=small#.png
A system that does not allow politicians to have a monopoly on setting the theme of what to legislate about.
Made in Taiwan
My number card penetration is already at 80~90%.
Digitize this.
Developing an OSS system and deploying it free of charge lowers the hurdle for each local government to introduce the system.
Since the rules allow for online petitions in local councils, I wonder if it would not be possible to > cover the ordinance here. No realization yet on the online petition in the Parliament.
My Number Authentication
Exclusionism, xenophobia
velvety
naturalization
premodern xenophobia
dynamic broadlining
Facilitator cost issues
→Facilitation by AI
Examples of mini-public in [Examples of Fraudulent Crime Hazard Prevention I'd like to see 100 million AI-mediated people.
I'd prefer 10 people in mini-public.
hazuma: AI interviewing is good but not facilitation?
Human opinion needs to change, but humans don't listen to machines.
KEN: Rather than changing people's opinions, turn-taking gives them an equal opportunity to speak and helps them organize their thoughts.
anno: working, we've had a conversation with the AI about the manifesto that we published and we've collected 2600 suggestions for changes.
Each of the three here has a different image.nishio.icon
---- tweet
0xtkgshn There is a fair amount of feeling that this discussion is limited. blu3mo I wonder how to describe the state of "collaboration" that Plurality aims to achieve. blu3mo I'm frustrated that we can only talk about JOIN still in the end as a real example of Plurality blu3mo After all, so far we've only been able to do "AI interviews" and it's frustrating that we haven't been able to do "AI-assisted large scale deliberations" I don't think technology is the bottleneck, but rather a lack of need, necessity, or purpose in the first place.
For what reason who should do the deliberation? Is the operator a political party?
blu3mo I'm frustrated that I personally/team Mirai/DD2030/the world as a whole isn't doing it. It was a long thread after this, so I'll continue it below.
Toori_mo I'm wondering what Hiroki Azuma was referring to earlier in his atsite about the efforts of Yukito Emaya and Audrey Tan. >Toori_mo Hiroki Azuma is seriously hot! Once upon a time, there was an idea of a local currency called "NAM generation" by Yukito Karatani. The exchange style X proposed there has been described by Audrey Tan and others, and it has become abstract and splendid, but it is a simple idea that I can realize with my own Genron. I don't need great technology or a big story about resistance to capitalism.
It's about how to create community without getting > involved in violence on a larger scale, human to human. I'm thinking of something like an update of the community that was called utopian socialism before Marx.
(video)
0xtkgshn I've heard a lot of comments that don't have the unique human authentication and identity ties sorted out, so I'd like to add something, Yasuno-san... When the "anonymous system for creating any number of accounts" becomes a bad idea, jumping to the "Internet real name system" as an alternative means is too rough a resolution for the hierarchy of anonymity.
In practice, it is possible to use the private key in the personal number card to prove that the person is a unique individual, while not disclosing any other information.
I don't know if I got through to Yasuno, who also said in the second half of the Q&A session that each person chooses what to disclose...
Self-sovereign identity" is a new form of identity made possible by recent advances in cryptography.
hal_sk The argument is that technology should be able to lower the cost of deliberative democracy. The Well of Digital Democracy Project
AI facilitators have been studied by Dr. Takayuki Ito in Japan for many years.
0xtkgshn Since the invited guests on the right side are from the tech side (CfJ, Namera Conference, DD2030, Plurality Tokyo), I often get a laugh from Suzuki to Azuma for tech-related tweets. I get a laugh. 0xtkgshn The fact that the person who says he despairs of digital democracy is using free AI and next to him a teenager goes to Team Mirai no Kai and pulls out a manifesto. The fact that... 0xtkgshn "I'll do it on my own" feeling is getting stronger. ====Here's the second half from here in my notes====.
(Break)
The story of my visit to Taiwan
genroncafe The event has resumed! First, let's talk about Audrey Tan's personality and reputation. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuXndRvbEAcilB5?format=jpg&name=small#.png
JOIN and vTaiwan
About 10% of the population users
It's great to create a new service and have 10% of the population use it.
On the other hand, 90% of people don't use it, that's also true.
JOIN's case is in Taiwanese textbooks, so more people will learn about digital democracy in the future.
Audrey is not a partisan.
When he came to Japan, he tried to meet with both the ruling and opposition parties, not just with one particular party.
But he became a minister in the DPP government in Taiwan, so he's seen as someone from that side.
Evaluation of pro-social media and community notes is similar to the idea of party neutrality
Parents are journalists.
The person in question is trying to be MEDIUM.
What you can do because you are not an elected minister.
Yasuno?
When we tried to do it in Japan, we decided that a new party would be appropriate.
I don't think AI will make everything work, and I don't think the speakers think it will, but the simple and passionate desire to reflect the will of the people in politics is palpable and rather brings me back to the roots of democracy.
hal_sk I guess the fact that it was around the time of Yasuno's group's visit to Taiwan, when the media was beating Audrey up pretty hard, probably had an impact. >"When I asked them in the park, many people said they didn't like them." I believe it was more popular at the time of the Corona.
Talk about a flameout.
chekichekimusu1 Where do you draw the line between the costs of society (right to folly) and individual freedom? Health operations with premium operations
KEN: It's a Glen-like idea.
The right to do stupid things
Cost to Society
public health administration
Not wearing a mask costs society.
Do you accept the freedom not to wear a mask?
Becoming able to calculate the cost to society.
1/3 of the population cannot drink alcohol.
People who drink alcohol are paying social security contributions due to the damage to their health.
Is it correct that drinking alcohol ups insurance premiums?
Is it right to say don't drink alcohol?
The United States is a community health
Different assumptions from universal coverage, more prudent in universal coverage
If you have more than one insurance policy and you can switch between them, you can say, "If you don't like it, go to another insurance policy," so you can design a strong system.
0xtkgshn I don't think it's an infringement of rights, or that it's free in principle to do so on a private (forkable) layer. I'm wondering why you didn't mention any kind of enforceability there. 0xtkgshn Mr. Suzuki mentioned it slightly. There's not a lot of discourse around here. There is a lot of technical theory of governance.
Less ideological.
Audrey+TBS CROSS DIG asked, "Will technology change democracy?" to which he replied, "Democracy itself is technology." Political Aspects of Taiwan
Audrey Tan's Leadership
genroncafe East "Kurzweil is fun science fiction, but there are glimpses of raw politics in 'Plurality'" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuXtAX6bEAclaoI?format=jpg&name=small#.png
0xtkgshn As a matter of fact Audrey is a cyber ambassador for Taiwan. Discount. Depth of Plurality
etokiwa999 Yesterday's event was great, especially Ken's response or fusion to correctability was pretty good (image) I think you could have explained more about the propagation system of tame enemies in general, but even without that, Ken's high-spiritedness was great!
In addition, I can feel the significance of the integration of politics and education, and self-control over desires, each of which I have recently been making products for myself.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuaBjmTb0AAxEZB?format=jpg&name=small#.png
Arendt on Diversity
plurality
Birth Discussion
The birth of a person
Ima Kitasei
Heidegger: Death, Existence, One
Politics repeats itself because new people come along.
The problem of one idiot after another.
Education needs to be UPDATED
0xtkgshn What about the problem of old people left behind? hazuma: I wanted to express the sense of camaraderie in a different way than friends and enemies.
Parents with young children feel "sheltered"
Fades with growth.
If they don't fade, they become "toxic parents".
Do you think of yourself as an individual or as a social group to which you belong?
correctability
No membrane at first.
Could there be a membrane? and discover that
Change the membrane in a predisposed manner
https://gyazo.com/61ad75eea3a42651b08d86d7f93139a0
Reconfigure the rule
Historical revisionists are "those who can't revise history."
American history has been rewritten by the Obama administration.
The "Blacks Made America, Too" Narrative.
o3.icon2025-03-28 Reuters
President Trump signs Executive Order 14253, Restoring Truth and Sanity to American History.
Ordered Vice President J.D. Vance to remove "anti-American and divisive ideology" from the Smithsonian, naming the NMAAHC (Obama Opening in 2016) as a specific example.
Correction = historical revision is a means of inclusion
It was a diverse country to begin with."
Wouldn't being retroactively correctable lead to the infallibility that Popper criticized?
Correction to "incorrect."
Who decides what is "wrong"?
Correctability is used by the accused.
Talk about dissatisfaction with the way the humanities have come to think about usefulness.
Whether or not nuclear fusion can be created will change the human race after 2030.
You can't experiment with AI."
Of course you can experiment.nishio.icon
And this is the article from 2023 PDF. https://gyazo.com/e34d13d1c43da74501aaee081e8c32fa
genroncafe Yasuno: "Even now, you can't bring a PC into the Diet because it's demeaning. But maybe smart glasses won't be degrading." https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuX25PjbEAA73Av?format=jpg&name=small#.png
genroncafe East "As international politics is driven by Trump's Truth Social posts, AI makes many things possible, but at the same time technology is bringing back old politics such as royal diplomacy. Is there a solution to this?" https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuX5SbzbEAAES7v?format=jpg&name=small#.png
Words of the King
Trump Elite ⇔ Masses
Ortega: Revolt of the Masses
Lippman, the elites have to do something about it.
Dewey: Idealistically, we need the public
What happened after 100 years?
prescription (medical)
We need to get on board with mass society.
Instead of politicians becoming cats, only the loudest politicians survive.
President comes out and solves the problem.
→ Systematization "works the same way no matter who is there."
The latter is not always the preferred state, it depends on the content of the "movement".
A world where you are constantly subjected to the assessment that you are just a cog in a wheel that is not needed and can be replaced.
Technology scales instinct.
It's too early to assume that.
Sports are valued for their physical strength, so the structure is similar to Luckism.
Isn't it good that simple desires are not good for money?
How to eliminate desire from communication
Less dimensionality of desire is a problem.
Is desire pluralistic?
The content may be diverse, but the desire may be simple.
Making high quality videos does not turn
You can earn access with drunken videos.
Bakhtin, "Dostoevsky Originated with Socrates."
o3.iconIn his revised edition of "Problems of Dostoevsky's Poetics" (1963), Bakhtin states that "the genesis of the genre of the novel is to be found in Plato's Socratic dialogues, the culmination of which is Dostoevsky's 'polyphonic novel' The culmination of this dialogue is Dostoevsky's "polyphonic novel.
Talking as you please is the origin of philosophy.
If you have more than 10,000 people, you can't deliberate, you can only lean on your desires.
Space design required
Pull media is not suitable for education.
Education is about providing what you are not asking for.
Online takes off quickly.
Technology connects desires.
Cannot be used to deform or suppress
You can't make people suppress their desires.
Instill self-control and public spirit in people through education.
genroncafe Suzuki: "It's not so much that there are limits to the technology itself, but that there are limits to where development money can go in the game of capitalism. I think there is a limit to how much money can be spent on development in the capitalist game. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuYBzq8bYAAsn4P?format=jpg&name=small#.png
Technology today is capitalism-driven technology.
Other mechanisms, such as the OSS, are not capitalist.
In that sense, Team Mirai becoming a national political party and building a team of engineers with party subsidies is a "system that democratically qualifies as a political party through voting and receives party subsidies from the taxpayers", which is a structure that "creates something useful for the people and receives support from the people" away from the general capitalist system. The structure of the system will be "to make something useful for the people and receive support from the people".
genroncafe Azuma: "I think it would be good for Team Mirai to have a physical space where people from all walks of life can come by. It will change people's impressions of us, and it will change the members of Team Mirai. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuYQwqMbEAUg8sz?format=jpg&name=small#.png
nishio If we disregard the cost, this would be really interesting. I think it would be good if the entrance lock was made into a personal number card and Orihime, an alter ego robot, would act as a receptionist, answer questions and listen to complaints in the manner of an AI anon. It would be a demonstration of the sci-fi space that technology has already made possible. shachi That's exactly what you should do if you work with some working space ...... Money can't make these spaces interesting.
Freedom is important
You can't have a budget and not have freedom.
Cultural support has become gentlification.
Anarchy.
Miscellaneous buildings are decreasing.
Cannot scale without being clean and having impact.
Q: How do you view the Emperor System, the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty, etc.?
A: Emphasis on investing in long-term growth (child care, education, science and technology, new industries, digital democracy).
Japan-U.S. security and other issues are not covered in the manifesto - concentrating on themes directly related to achieving the vision of the party.
Q: Stance on international issues
A: Clear opposition to violations of international law (e.g., Israel's attack on Iran is NG).
Q: Response to the "thin argument" point
A: Every politician has strengths and weaknesses. There are clear arguments for priority policies (investment in the future and governance reform).
What is an important theme?" is itself a claim.nishio.icon
There are people who say that they are "not very assertive" when they are not assertive about the subjects they are interested in, but what they think about the great changes that will occur during the next 6 years of the council term due to AI is not at all clear.
Q: What to do after visualization by broad listening, I hope you can come up with a solution like "[Same-sex marriages in Taiwan are not kinship.
A: I believe there is a [two-step deliberation
1: To make people realize that where they are discussing A or B, "No, there is also C and D."
Acknowledging new options, widening the range of choices
Currently, we are pushing forward with the idea that this is where we are lacking.
2: Choice among a finite number of options
This is currently in the form of a majority vote, a sheikh's decision, or a QV.
Q: Populism/avoidance of populism
A: Make accountability visible by having a "responsible person" make the final decision, and maintain a structure in which the representative takes responsibility, not just the AI or the voices of the many.
Q: Administrative DX and elderly support
A: The response for those who wish to meet face-to-face will remain. The introduction of digital procedures will reduce the window load and increase the time available for those who wish to meet face-to-face. The rate of smartphone use is rising, even among the elderly.
Q: Segregation of specialty areas and broad listening
A: It is necessary to have "two wheels" to gather opinions from both the general public and experts. Expert interviews are still required as in the past.
Q: Dealing with conflicting plurics
A: Final human (team) choice/rejection in light of Team Mirai's vision. If it does not match the vision, it will not be adopted.
Q: How much personal information does broad listening take?
A: My number should be used to authenticate residency, and the regional discussion should make it clear whether the opinions of those who do not live in the area or not.
Other attributes should be in a form where each individual decides whether to disclose them or not.
blu3mo I think deliberation and plurality are desirable ideals when looking at the system from a bird's eye view. On the other hand, as an individual living within that system, why should I seek this...?
Why do I need to transform my opinions with others and with each other, or collaborate more deeply with a larger number of people?
>blu3mo: I think one of the values of deliberation and communication is that "hearing other people's opinions changes yours", but where are the stakeholders in the field who want that...? and
blu3mo I'm not saying that individuals are happy or anything, but that everyone is happier in the long run if it's not like that than a world divided and at war. There is a website that has a comprehensive list of ways to support Mr. Yasuno (Team Mirai).
katsunumayu I thought he answered well about the recent flames. I became interested in Ms. Anno and Team Mirai. It was helpful for me to know where to vote in the Upper House election. blu3mo and halsk discussion summary.
blu3mo I wonder how to describe the state of "collaboration" that Plurality aims to achieve. blu3mo I'm frustrated that we can only talk about JOIN still in the end as a real example of Plurality blu3mo After all, so far we've only been able to do "AI interviews" and it's frustrating that we haven't been able to do "AI-assisted large scale deliberations" I don't think technology is the bottleneck, but rather a lack of need, necessity, or purpose in the first place.
For what reason who should do the deliberation? Is the operator a political party?
hal_sk I honestly think it would be difficult to do a public hearing AI thing for a story that would be discussed in parliament. The information asymmetry between the bureaucracy and the public is too great, and the discussion could easily become an air battle. I think it would be better to use use use cases that are closer to home, such as policies implemented by local governments or urban development.
blu3mo And do you think "citizen deliberation" and "collaboration across differences" are necessary? I think that even if the AI chiefs just interview all citizens very much, they can achieve (1) gathering information for better decision making and (2) creating a sense of efficacy/conviction for decision making.
hal_sk I think you should do just that, because you can feel that "my opinion was heard". The next steps include "listening to others' opinions and changing one's own" and "new ideas are generated from opposing viewpoints through discussion.
I think this requires a longer term process design.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GuXtOy0bsAAY4cJ?format=jpg&name=small#.png
blu3mo I think one of the values of deliberation and communication is that "hearing other people's opinions changes your opinion", but the stakeholders in the field who want that... I wonder where they are...? And hal_sk Ah, that is the essential question. Not many stakeholders actually want to do this. However, in decisions such as how to close public facilities or what to do about unprofitable bus routes, municipal officials want to lead consensus building in the community. There are local government officials who want to lead the community to a consensus on such decisions that will cause someone else to lose money.
Maybe some decarbonization actions involving companies.
hal_sk and I've written about it, but I'm still afraid to put it into critical and serious decision making. It's easier to do it for city planning and other situations where you want to draw out proactive participation and ideas from citizens, not zero-sum. Also, within CfJ, it could be used in a company! There is also talk of
Let's have a meeting with the members once!
blu3mo I believe that either "having a deliberative discussion" or "the sheikh persuading each person" can provide conviction and consensus building, and AI could scale both! I don't have a very high resolution understanding, but the latter seems easier to scale with AI.
hal_sk I know the sheikh wants to do it. Especially suited for election manifestos and such. On the other hand, making it a municipal task still requires a bit more trial and error. The ball often falls between politics and practice, but if it is not made a municipal task, it is difficult to budget and unsustainable.
It is important to design a process that is incorporated into local government practice.
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